Comments on: The Irish Values Debate: Part One – What Are Values?

By: Richard Delevan

Richard Delevan — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:14:02 +0000

Sounds like the usual “debate” amongst a tiny group of Irish Times readers. Not sorry I missed it now. Thanks for that and for such a thoughtful post.

I know you posted this a good while back, but to Darragh’s point, I always understood cultural values to be normative bits of relative ethics. You seem in many cases to be identifying potential virtues rather than values. And your list seems so expansive as to lose focus by the end.

Could I suggest a very tight restatement of the “core values” you posit?

Also, doesn’t your premise – that there is a discoverable set of immutable “Irish values” – prejudice the legitimacy of competing values or potentially universalisable values? I would have thought the topic was interesting precisely because Ireland is in values turmoil. To identifiy conflicting values, competing for adherents, is the map the terrain of what passes for public discourse in Ireland – which could sorely use some clearer thinking.

By: 73man

73man — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:00:35 +0000

Hi Darren. A good post and very encouraging to see some open discussion on this topic. You’re asking some very serious questions here but I will email you about that directly if that’s ok with you.

By: Darren.. too

Darren.. too — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:35:04 +0000

I dont think values have ever really changed. Look at the 10 commandments and tell me (apart from the religious ones) where in an ideal society these values should not be upheld. Look at any major religion going back centuries and people always aspire to do the right thing. The thing is, what makes it a value is not that its the norm, but that not following it is inherently wrong.

Getting very philosophical here but take your adultery concept. If nobody every committed adultery, there would be no need for a commandment against it. Therefor being present day or thousands of years ago, a loving faithful coupling was something to be valued.

By: B'dum B'dum

B'dum B'dum — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:57:16 +0000

I honestly feel the catholic church in this country does a very good job establishing some form of moral code among children.

I find people don’t say thanks enough.

A lot of people in Ireland seem to show an aggressive resistance towards the possibility of actually tipping someone, I’ve a list as long as my arm of stories of people saying “I’m not going to tip you for that”… despite the fact I never, ever, seek a tip… it’s far more interesting to see how little people feel like tipping than actually getting tipped.

By: Darragh

Darragh — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:14:57 +0000

A long post on a topic almost impossible to write condesely and cohesively, so I congratulate you on the fine effort sir.

Pedant that I am, I’d suggest “chivalry” be replaced with simple “manners”. I know a couple of feminists who hate the word, as it means “The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women.” whereas modern women may not “need a man to be nice to them”. Tis a fierce manly word and I don’t know if there’s a female equivalent.

My temptation is to carry this forward with a blog response of my own at some stage. Still, I like it. It’s better than the debate anyhow!

To answer your question though – Values – for me it’s how things SHOULD be done – how people, garda, teachers, politicians, doctors, nurses, service industry people and so on should behave to be part of society. Not by law, but my moral obligation and decency, to improve the society for all.